The Spirit
June 26th, 2008 by david brothers | Tags: frank miller, movies, spirit, will eisnerThe first work of Will Eisner’s that I ever read was Eisner/Miller. I may have purchased Autobiographix first, but I barely remember it at this point.
Eisner/Miller, though, sticks out in my mind because it was a conversation between two respected creators. The press lead-up to the book was probably the first time I’d ever heard Eisner’s name. All I knew going in was that he was a) old, b) highly respected, and c) crazy talented. I hadn’t read The Spirit, A Contract With God, or any of that. Regardless, Eisner/Miller was a fascinating history lesson and very interesting.
I looked up a few trades of The Spirit and didn’t get it. Ebony White was dumb, The Spirit was just kind of a dopey generic dude, and the art was all right. The idea was neat, at least. I filed it under “Things that aren’t for me,” a box which also contains LoSH, heavy metal, dungeons & dragons, and Angelina Jolie. Out of sight, out of mind, and so on.
I scoped out Darwyn Cooke’s Spirit when it dropped. It was okay– the art was good and the noir-y feel was pretty decent, but it didn’t really grab me. I might grab the hardcovers for the art, but you know, that’s when I get around to it.
By this point, everyone’s seen the trailer for The Spirit movie. It’s written and directed by Frank Miller, stars Gabriel Macht, Sam Jackson, Eva Mendes, and a grip of other people. Most of the fan response I’ve seen for it, mainly online, has tended toward the negative.
“He’s just remaking Sin City.” “Oh, is everyone gonna be a whore?” “Psht, he’s ruining Eisner’s vision.” “Frank Miller lost it.” “The trailer is overwrought.”
Honestly, I don’t get it. I know that ASBAR and DKSA are pretty much the definition of “Love it or hate it,” and the “WHORES WHORES WHORES” meme is very prevalent (though boiling down a man’s decades-long career into a webcomic catchphrase is ridiculously reductionist), but I see the trailer and see a movie that I genuinely want to see.
It hits more than a few of my buttons. It’s noir, it’s got Sam “I’ll Play Any Role For Money” Jackson, Miller is involved, and it’s got a striking visual style. Even the posters are different from what I’ve usually seen for movies.
So, you know, I was trying to figure out why basically everyone I know hates the very idea of this movie. I think it comes down to two things. One is that my default stance with Miller is “I’ll check it out.” I generally like his work, and he’s produced some of my favorite comics. I think he’s got an interesting, and off-kilter, perspective on things, so I’m curious to see where he’s taking the movie.
The other is that I just don’t really care about the Spirit at all. I don’t have the attachment that people who’re more steeped in comics history do. He’s just another hero to me. He isn’t Flash or Spider-man. He’s like… well, he’s still more than Captain Atom. He’s Katana or Wildcat– interesting in theory, but not so interesting that I’m going to seek out books featuring them.
The movie looks like an interesting way to try and get into the character, and it actually takes less commitment to watch a two hour flick than it does to buy a trade and have to live with it being terrible and sitting on your bookshelf. I think it’ll be a fun action flick, all things considered, and a good way to waste away an afternoon.
Plus, the movie’s got Eva Mendes.
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Just think of it as a really well made Skinemax flick.
The current problem with Miller is that he is so didactic that he can’t even make movies that have color in them.
The Spirit’s gonna be in color. It was only the teaser trailer that was b&w.
I imagine it’ll be something akin to Disney’s Dick Tracey, with sex.
Pass.
I really only have a limited familiarity with the character (mostly only having read excerpts from scans from the Eisner stuff) but is the whole MY CITY SCREAMS thing really like what Eisner would write? That sounds a lot more Frank Miller-ish, unless Miller really is than influenced by Eisner. I’ll really need to see more of the movie before I can pass judgment given that all I’ve heard is that it’s nothing like the extremely Sin City-ish teaser I keep seeing.
I’ve read like a total of maybe three issues of The Spirit and found that trailer just laughably bad…
Those posters don’t seem to do much dissuade me from the “WHORES WHORES WHORES” thing, and the trailer’s like a confirmation biased fanboy’s proof delivered on a silver platter. I’m not really sure why we ought to be expecting more from Miller, in light of ASBAR and the comments he made following 300’s theatrical release.
I’ve never read any of the Spirit.
I’ve read up on Eisner a bit, and I’ve read some of his stuff. Yes, the guy was groundbreaking, shit yes he influenced a lot of writers. Does this mean that his stuff, as viewed through our modern lenses, is all that great? Hell no.
Ask Joe Everyman and they’ll say, “WTF IS BATMAN DOING IN SIN CITY?” This doesn’t mean Spirit is going to be a bad movie, but at the same time, I’m not expecting anything great either.
”
So, you know, I was trying to figure out why basically everyone I know hates the very idea of this movie. I think it comes down to two things. One is that my default stance with Miller is “I’ll check it out.” I generally like his work, and he’s produced some of my favorite comics. I think he’s got an interesting, and off-kilter, perspective on things, so I’m curious to see where he’s taking the movie.
The other is that I just don’t really care about the Spirit at all. I don’t have the attachment that people who’re more steeped in comics history do. He’s just another hero to me. He isn’t Flash or Spider-man. He’s like… well, he’s still more than Captain Atom. He’s Katana or Wildcat– interesting in theory, but not so interesting that I’m going to seek out books featuring them.”
You know, for quite awhile now I’ve been negative thinkin’ on this thing, and I think I’ve figured out why. Simply put, it’s more Miller than it is the Spirit. Not Eisner, I can’t speak to that, but the Spirit himself. If the movie is good, it’s because Frank Miller is a good writer/director and not because the Spirit is an engaging character. (Which isn’t to say he isn’t.) And that isn’t even a bad thing in and of itself; the thing is my expectations were way off-base in regard to what the selling point is, because it’s been that way from the start. I suppose now I can give it a fair shake if it gets some good word of mouth, but it was never my thing either way.
Oh, and “WHORES WHORES WHORES”? Regardless of its possible accuracy, aren’t put-downs supposed to make you look smarter than the other guy?
I’m also not discounting the possibility that I just have bad taste in entertainment. Miller’s my main draw here– I think it’ll fit somewhere between Iron Man (A) and Hulk (B) in the “enjoyable popcorn movie” scale.
Eva > Gwyneth, though.
Everything I’ve read from The Spirit reminds me of a Donald Duck comic. Fun for kids, crazy mysteries, pre-adolescent romance, sight gags with little spirals for dizziness. What the hell did I just watch?
The best way to describe why the reaction is negative is if you take, to use your own example, Spider-Man. Now imagine he’s not that well-known to the general public, but is the exact same character, groundbreaking in the exact same way and popular for the exact same reasons and had a huge impact on comic books.
Now Frank Miller is making a movie about him, that’s in black and white, is in no way light hearted (but in fact rather scary, because spiders are scary animals), Aunt May is a prostitute all of a sudden, Mary Jane is a prostitute, Gwen Stacy is a prostitute, uncle Ben is removed altogether (I can see why the original Ebony Black wouldn’t work in a movie, but Darwyn Cooke showed that the Spirit can have a black sidekick in the 2000’s) and Doctor Octopus is flamboyantly gay, it’s suddenly raining all the time and Spider-Man speaks in repetitive monologues about how his city screams; and the whole thing is called Frank Miller’s Spider-Man, and this is all the world will know of the character. In the worst case scenario, they’ll think this is what Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created and wanted.
That’s why the reaction is negative. Miller may have been influenced by Eisner (then again, who in the comic world hasn’t?) but their work is nothing alike. At all.
Also, Frank Miller DOES have a rather large fascination with prostitutes and/or women defined almost entirely by sexuality, with few to no other character traits.
Hey Dave, have you ever written anything or plan on writing anything about Miller’s influence on comics and how he’s been regarded in the past and present? I imagine your perspective on that subject would make for a pretty interesting read.
It’s definitely on the list!
Mr. Eh?–
You’ve figured all this out from one trailer, and a teaser at that. The movie won’t be in black and white, he turned characters sexy, yes, but I don’t think he’s turned anyone into a hooker who wasn’t already one.
Who’s to say that it won’t be light hearted, either? We’ve seen one teaser. That’s it. We aren’t going to get Dick Tracy, in terms of comedy, but I doubt if we’ll get Batman Returns, either.
Also, Frank Miller DOES have a rather large fascination with prostitutes and/or women defined almost entirely by sexuality, with few to no other character traits.
Sin City isn’t the complete body of Frank Miller’s work.
Actually, I’ve figured it out from interviews with Mr. Miller. Direct quotes:
“The character [The Spirit] has a terrifying side to him. This is a man who’s died and came back to life. So it twists into fantasy.”
On Silken Floss, master surgeon and chemist – in the movie, a secretary:
“Scarlett Johansson plays Silken Floss. I looked at Silken Floss and, now, here’s this beautiful, really uptight woman. And I was like, she had to have her bad old days. She had to have her crazy days where she got up at 6 at night every day and there was some kind of daddy taking care of her. And that’s the Silken Floss that’s in the movie.”
I may be reading “some kind of daddy” wrong, but I’m quite certain he means in the sugar- sense.
Several still images of the (in the comics, never, EVER seen) Octopus have been released (as a google-search of “octopus” together with “Jackson” will show you) and if he’s not flamboyantly gay, he’s certainly flamboyantly gay in the Exotic Adrian Street sense, to use a wrestling reference. To go back to my Spider-Man analogy, it’d be like making Dr. Octopus… well, the Octopus from Frank Miller’s Spirit.
Not to mention him making the Spirit’s trademark blue suit black. Now, some people have argued that it was made blue because of printing issues and maybe that was the case originally, but Eisner referred to it as blue many times after that. On it’s own, no, that wouldn’t be a big gripe, but it kind of solidifies the direction Frank’s taking the movie in.
Let’s hope I choose the right italics tag for this…
Sin City isn’t the complete body of Frank Miller’s work.
Granted. However;
Karen Page of Daredevil – Junkie prostitute.
The Oracle of 300 – Prostitute, possibly junkie (unless the trance is just self-induced).
Evil robot from Hard Boiled – Tries to (very randomly) get the main character to try out her sex-parts.
Catwoman of Year One – Prostitute.
Catwoman of DKR – Prostitute.
Carrie Kelly of DKSA – Understudy to a prostitute.
Black Canary, of ASBAR – Works at a bar where she’s constantly demeaned, ogled and forced to dress… provocatively, then fights back (another recurring theme in Miller’s stories), then (randomly) sleeps with Batman.
Rusty, the Boy Robot – Okay, Rusty wasn’t a prostitute.
I hear Martha Washington is supposed to be free of prostitutes, though I haven’t read it myself. I’ve also not read Frank Miller’s Robocop, though since it deals with a gritty, futuristic city, I wager there are ladies of the night involved somehow. There are more examples, but these are just a few notable ones. There’s of course also the “Gotham city is a whore” speech from ASBAR and it doesn’t bode well that he demanded no editorial interference for his upcoming portrayal of Power Girl in the same title. What that means remains to be seen, but I have my suspicions.
I actually enjoy Frank Miller’s earlier work quite a bit, but whether you think it’s overblown or not, the man DOES have a fascination with the Hooker With A Heart Of Gold archetype, whether they’re literal prostitutes or just women doing things traditionally considered sexist and demeaning.
I can’t find the request for no editorial interference on the Power Girl thing. Where did you read that? Do you have a link?
I’d have to quibble with the Exotic Adrian Street/flamboyantly gay/stealth gay thing. I found two pictures of him online– one on the cover of the comic-con magazine or whatever (SLJ in a fur coat, holding a gun) and one of a green screen shot (SLJ with green gun, green strips on his clothes, hat on). You could make a case for the eye paint, though they look like octopus arms, similar to the pattern on his jacket, but I don’t agree that it’s on an Adrian Street level.
Also, when was Carrie Kelly understudy to a prostitute? Because she was Catgirl? She’d been underground with Batman for some years before coming out as Catgirl, and it was apparently a recent change, judging from the series.
I’m working on a post (or more likely, a series of posts) about Miller and his body of work. I’ll keep this conversation in mind as I write. If I can keep up the rate I’ve been rereading his stuff, I’ll start it on next Monday.
Jesus Christ, those posters are some misogynistic bullshit.
Miller… man. He did a great run on Daredevil, but seeing Catwoman in DKR being an old and useless madam just cinched it for me.
That being said, I’ll probably still see the movie. Even if it hurts.
Damn, I can’t find a source on the Power Girl thing. I could’ve sworn I had seen it mentioned somewhere legitimate, but maybe I’m wrong. Should’ve double-checked before I posted. I guess we’ll see what happens.
As for Carrie Kelly, maybe my opinion is coloured by the fact that her appearance seemed to be about 75% ass-shots.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to your posts on Miller. As far as I think he’s fallen, I’m currently re-reading Dark Knight Returns, and it’s a fantastic story.
I guess the articles on Miller will have to take some time on debunking the “WHORESWHORESWHORES” “myth.”
I’ll count the whores per book.